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View Profile JK-FlipFlop
Let us drink on the giddying brink Of pools of excrement All manner of shit for the glamour and glitz Mephistopheles lent

James Kelley @JK-FlipFlop

31, Male

Contractor

That shitty one...

Chester, PA

Joined on 8/17/08

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Comments (20)

I wouldn't really say your average user should ask someone for a project file. That's a moderator's place, but if you want to find them on SC or YT, that's fine. Of course, you may also find all their shit is ripped from there and not original. This is usually the case if they only upload the most popular works from here.

I'm making a master post of resources for questions regarding the AP, and if that's fixed and @NekoMika likes it, I'd like to link to this

That would be just fine with me to link to this. You or any of the other moderators can PM me with any changes that need to be made.

I do things rather differently given I have to mod the audio portal anyways (love the audio portal.) EDM364 is right, if you feel a user's content is not legit, feel free to contact the associated artist on their YT or SC to see if they are legit.

Another thing is to watch for those who beg to be scouted or ask users to upload songs for use in GD when the author clearly did not make the song.

Yeah, I think I covered that point about asking to be scouted. I should go into more detail on that one, though.

I would also say don't contact the YT or SC if you're trying to ascertain proof. @NekoMika usually handles stuff like this. Impersonating is not so opaque that we don't recognize it when it happens, and your average user shouldn't have to trouble themselves to find the real artist. If you see that they look suspicious and their channels on YT or SC are well established, it may well be an impersonator, but that's not your headache to wrangle, if that makes sense. Tom himself has said something along the lines of, "It's disgruntling to see level one users pop on and PM users, demanding proof of authorship here or off site."

Well, okay then. I'll make yet another edit. Thanks for clearing this up.

Since when were we not allowed to ask for proof?

This is coming from the moderators, not me. It's complicating things, though. I just found a user who makes hip-hop, and I want to scout him, but now, I'm not sure if it's worth jumping through the hoops required to do so.

As much as I respect the moderators, it's kind of stupid. I read EDM364's comments, and I get what she's saying. Asking someone for proof is kind of accusation and harassment, in a way. But, I feel it depends on how you word it to said person. When I ask someone for proof, I don't say "give me some proof". I kindly let them know I need to be provided with info in order to scout them (because obviously it will backfire on us if we don't). If someone told me the importance of such a thing, I'd at least give them a screenshot. Maybe not a project file, but even a screenshot proves something. I mean, I'm an audiophile, but I don't know every song either. They could give me their other social media and tell me what DAW they use till their blue in the face, but a GD user will stoop down to pretty deep lengths just to get a song on to a game. If I'm not allowed to ask for even such a shred of evidence, I guess I won't be scouting much :/

With audio theft running high, I think there should be a system in place for users who regularly seek new talent. Look, if we can't ask for any way to know for sure if someone is stealing shit or not, I see one of two options:
Don't ban people for accidentally scouting song thieves.
Go back to the old days of moderator approval.
Or wait...
How about a topic for new artists on NG trying to get scouted?

@BlueAlpha14, yes, it is a little backward, and not everyone would abuse it, but again, bear in mind the 13 year old kids who would go "if ur real prove it now or i flag u"

@cank we have the review request club and other clubs, as well as audio advertisements, but people can't ask to be scouted either because of GD thieves. Some assholes have even sent Tom bogus requests. Actually, a lot of our less kind rules are due to GD abuse now that you mention

But all of this is making it almost impossible to 100% safely scout someone. It's really not fair to those who are legit and deserve to be scouted.
Perhaps we can have a dedicated team of scouters as opposed to just anyone doing it?

That's possible. Indeed a lot of the problem is GD thieves getting scouted, then scouting more GD thieves, and so on, and begging others to scout, etc. Half this list is problems brought on by them if you notice. The mods still do a lot of scouting, but it just isn't enough to keep up with the flow of submissions. We're much better off warding people what not to scout than telling them to scout, just based on the amount of stolen crap we see, too. Of course, that goes hand in hand with flagging

It is possible?
I mean, that would be cool to have people that do that. If this happens, these people should be called Recruiters, and it should say that next to their names in the forums, just like it says Staff, Moderator, Supporter or Member.
And I did notice that I kept on going back to the topic of song theft in almost every point of my attempt at a scouting guide. Is there any way to just stop Geometry Dash from using Newgrounds as an audio source?

@EDM364 Can't there be a punishment in place for that kind of threat? When I offer to scout somebody, I let them know I think their work is great and the rest of Newgrounds should see it. But I remind them scouting is a serious procedure and I need evidence the track is theirs. The two artists I've asked have been more than okay with it. One person sent me a video showing them playing the song in FL Studio and the other sent me an ableton project file, but I do let them know I would never infringe on their work.

@cank I strongly agree with that statement. Because, anybody could scout an audio thief. I reported a song that was stolen from a YouTube channel with almost 700 subscribers, and everyone thought he actually made that track. However, then the mods don't know if you seriously didn't know the track was stolen. It's like breaking the law and telling the cops "I didn't know that was against the law". Unfortunately if we let some of the liars off the hook they'll be bound to do it again.

Even though I probably would be too young to fill this position, even if it was a reality. I think there should be a team of people that could scout. Any scouted artist would no longer be able to scout, but would only be allowed to recommend that artist to said group of people to investigate. It's probably a dumb idea, but I usually think a lot so yeah :P

That last paragraph was brilliant. About how anyone can recommend someone, then it would go to a team of people who make the decision. If your recommendation fails, you lose points. If it is successful, you get points. That would be pretty nice to have in your stats. Don't know how or where it would fit in, though.
The only issue with this is the work it would take to put this system in place.

Maybe it could go towards whistle points? I mean, technically, if you're getting ahold of a team of scouters you're alerting them the same way you'd alert a moderator about flags.

I don't know everything about this site, but I know a lot of work went into all the mechanics and basically the foundation. The amount of work it would take to implement that can't be anything worse than the work that's already been poured here.

Well, I wouldn't mind being a Recruiter (yeah, that's what I'm calling it). Probably beats being a moderator :P
Whistle points? No, that's what flagging is for.

@BlueAlpha14, you know what? How about we get XP for a successful recommendation for the audio portal? And a penalty would be the inability to make a recommendation for more and more time for each unsuccessful recommendation.

I badly would want that position, but I doubt the staff would let a 15 year old have a significant position. I know some sites they allow 16 year olds to be staff members, but I don't what the age requirements are here.

But why make an entirely new stat just for recommending a recruit? I mean, like you said. If you make a reasonable and good recommendation, you get points. And if you make a poor or Geometry Dash recommendation, you lose points. It just wouldn't make sense to have another merit stat when we already have one that can gain or lose points.

You're right. But I just thought of the XP thing I mentioned below. It would be nice to gain XP from the audio portal for once in Newgrounds history.
But yes, I would love to get the job, and I'd do it well.

@BlueAlpha14 I say that I don't advise people to message other users and ask for proof right off. It's not advisable. That doesn't mean people don't or can't do it, and that there may not be any exceptions. I just don't advise it because of all the misuse we've seen, which is impossible to regulate without someone writing up a letter to the staff about it, and that isn't fun for anyone to go through, including us. You have free will to do as you please though. Now, I don't think someone getting banned penalizes the scouter anymore, but I could be wrong. You'd have to ask a more knowledgeable mod; I'm still learning.

@cank, yes, it's quite possible. The way the scouting system works now, even, I think it still takes multiple users' recommendations in order to get scouted. In fact, some users have tons of recommendations but are not yet scouted. I'm not entirely sure how it works myself, but mods still do most of the scouting that I'm aware of. Having a trustworthy pool of people whose specific purpose was to help us scrutinize the unscouted section would be a boon, though, I'll say.

I'm not entirely sure about how any of it works, either, but every time I hit the link to recommend, they're immediately in. I'm only a level 5, so I really don't know how much power it takes. And I've scouted people who had no ratings and only a few (5 or less) views, having sorted the unscouted submissions by date.

Oh that actually sounds like a good idea, since we can only get 10 XP max a day. Maybe there could be a punishment system with temporary suspensions if you waste the recruiters time. Personally, I think recommending an obvious audio thief should be an automatic suspension, because they should know not to recommend that stuff.

That's what I was saying. The suspensions would be automatic once a Recruiter denies a recommendation. And the time would be calculated based on prior suspensions. Just like the court system, I guess.
But the recruiter thing would effectively destroy the GD scouting buddy thing.

@EDM364 I thought because you scouted someone who broke the rules it would penalize the scouter because they weren't cautious about it. @NekoMika do you know the answer?

I like the recruiter idea. I mean, it's less work for the moderators. Considering the audio mods put up with a bunch of stuff.

It also keeps GD users from conning average users into scouting them, then scouting their buddies.

The way I see it. It should be a one week suspension for the first time they recommend someone unworthy, and an added week every subsequent time. If they exceed an x amount of failed attempts, they should be permanently banned for having the privilege. There should be a little forgiveness with that though, because everyone has their own opinions on what's good and what's not.

PsychoGoldfish made an update a couple of years ago so that tree scouting is no longer a thing. To put it bluntly, it's entirely unfair to scout a whole lot of users over the actions of a very few users breaking rules. If we unscout someone, not everyone gets unscouted in the process. :)

That makes me feel better.
I might go ahead and scout this dude with the oldschool hip-hop.

Good to see that you moved the "ask for music files." I always check new audio, then old audio, because I feel my first impression would determine how I felt, so a bad first impression will lead me to a bad impression on their music.

Yes, actually that was the moderators who asked for me to change things. I had to edit this post like 20 times. Currently I'm cleaning up all my shitposts and removing anything that is not a resource. So that will leave me 2 news posts. I'm preparing to leave the site due to the fact that I will be a father by the end of the year. I'll probably stop making music completely. PM me if you are in need of a real music making program.
By the way, I'm still on your news post block list.

Not anymore (: I'll consider it, but music isn't my main focus at all, so I'm not thinking of buying anything to make music right now.

I was gonna give you something for free

oh, cool